The evolution of whale accounts on Hive

1 yr
3 Min Read
641 words

The evolution of whale accounts on Hive.

Direct from the desk of Dane Williams.

How whale accounts need to evolve on Hive for the platform to succeed

I really think that the evolution of whale accounts is a hugely underrated part of the success of Hive itself.

We want to see those with stake being the most innovative types of people.

Risk takers that have had success because they were willing to think outside the box and put their money where their mouth is.

What we don’t want to see is the conservatively rich getting richer, with no incentive to innovate or fund innovation.

Unfortunately however, it seems that the creeping inequality in Hive shows that we’re not getting the evolution of whale accounts that I’d like to see occuring.

The direction of Hive Backed Dollars highlights conservatism

The underwhelmingly conservative direction the chain is taking Hive Backed Dollars (HBD) is a prime example of things not working how they should.

When you look at what the success of Terra’s UST stablecoin has done for their native LUNA token, it’s a no brainer that HBD should be expanding in order to compete.

We are positioned perfectly to take advantage of gaps in the algorithmic stablecoin market.

Afterall, we are the only truly decentralised algorithmic stablecoin with no founder stakes or pre-mines in our native token to corrupt where things are going.

(The SEC says hi, Mr Kwon.)

But we are not taking advantage of our position, instead happy to remain conservatively small and insignificant on a global scale.

Within the LeoFinance community, it is fairly well accepted that HBD needs liquidity to level up.

If you can’t even buy $10K worth of the stuff, and right now this is the case, then there is really no point.

Changing how things work in order to implement a Hive AMM model seems like a solid, no brainer solution that should at least be getting more discussion than it is..

But those at the top with influential levels of stake have vested interests in not seeing their current work become redundant so innovation is stifled.

Heck, we can’t get close to the votes required to secure DHF funding for even a second-layer solution to the lack of HBD liquidity.

Instead, we should be encouraging innovation

This is easier said than done and if nobody wants to put their money where their mouth is, then obviously nothing is going to change.

What I expected to see was, when each individual Hive community saw massive profits, that this money would eventually flow back into Hive Power.

They’ve taken risks, succeeded and will hopefully now look to gain a larger influence over the chain with their increased stake.

The thing is however that the only community to so far see this sort of money flow in, is Splinterlands.

When Splinterlands cards went from being worthless to thousands of dollars, I did expect some members of that community to take profit and use that money to gain more influence on the chain itself via increased HP.

But the numbers in the article I linked to at the top show that for some reason, this isn't happening.

Will this be different if say LeoFinance banged via LEO, CUB or POLYCUB repricing 20x?

Or will it just be the same where they stay in their own little bubble or cash out elsewhere?

Final thoughts on the evolution of whale accounts on Hive

I’d love to see those who see success via Hive’s successful communities filter that money back into HIVE itself.

These are the innovators and passionate people I want using their stake to influence the direction of our blockchain.

Do you have any thoughts on the issue?

Leave a comment and get involved.

Best of probabilities to you.

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I see it evolving, but in a different way. In the early days you had Hive Whales and tiny apps and users. Picture a hub and tiny outposts.

Now the apps are maturing and the communities and what Hive does means less and less as long as they do what they are really good at. Keep the blockchain secure and running. They are fantastic at it, and when there is a bump they fix it.

We've had the same core group of whales since the beginning basically 6 years now, sometimes there are a few changes but for the most part we know who they are and what they do.

There IS a power shift happening though, as the apps and app loyalty begin to outweigh the core group. Watch it for a bit and you'll see it. Now picture that HUB again, only now there are way more outposts and some of them control more assets, not Hive, but other assets, resources and all the options that brings. Soon the Hubs outweigh the core.

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You are correct. The tentacles are starting to spread bring more wealth to community members. The question is whether a lot of that will end up filtering back into the ecosystem in the form of HIVE/HBD holdings?

We will see. But the evolution is impossible to miss. And those who are active are seeing their holdings grow, both at the base and second layer.

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We saw the first signs of this when Splinterlands hit their peak a few months ago. The Hive activity, RCs and price all went up with the activity.

On a personal level I bought Hive three times in the last 6 months, in order to use/purchase things on Apps. In my case Punks, Cub and Splinterland cards.

Based on activity and price, I was not the only one.

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Really well said :)

The only thing is that witnesses who are tasked with keeping the Hive blockchain running smoothly, don't have to be whales themselves.

They're well paid for this job, but witnesses are simply elected via the stake of (primarily) other whales.

This means that witnesses can be conservative and still perform their job perfectly well.

When it comes to driving progressive change via innovation, those with the biggest stake have the loudest voice via witness and DHF votes.

Stake that I'd love to see those making money in the various communities use their profits to take.

Soon the Hubs outweigh the core.

Time will tell, but I do hope so.

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1 yr (edited)

Check out the combined market cap of Leo, Cub and PolyCub and you can do the same with the various splinterland's assets, it's already happening.

The crypto market is fairly stagnant right now in general, but imagine when it's alt season again and Matic and BNB go up again, ... Hive will go up again too, but the various outposts are growing less and less dependent on Hive and many users are loyal to the apps and the app makers.

Regarding the HDF, it's always going to be held onto tightly by the whales, they talk about it openly. 2 of the most successful apps we've ever had, haven't ever used that fund. And that's cool.

The Hive whales are outstanding at keeping the chain operational and moving forward 3 seconds at a time, and resolving issues that do come up, and I imagine it will remain that way. I'm fine with that, the apps and their founders who are having town halls, listening to users, and buidling, that's where the growth will come, but.. it requires a steady stable blockchain to happen.

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As I've gone through and written replies in this thread today, I do feel like I sound more negative about Hive than I actually am.

Thank you for being the voice of reason here haha.

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I go through those phases too! My time on the platform is focused on Leo, so and if Leo is successful it helps Hive be successful as well.

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Hive doesn't have smart contracts which limits development to an extent. Also I don't think it's entirely upto the whales. As a Dolphin I've been putting my money where my mouth is and building Skippy which I've mainly funded myself.

I have two pools which will generate 10% APY on either Hive or Leo but no one is using them. Only @trumpman

For whales to invest there needs to be people willing to support

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But whales can certainly drive innovation via their witness and DHF voting.

If they've made money in progressive ways, for example after investing in whichever community/game dApp bangs next, then they are more likely to drive real progress in Hive itself.

In order for this to happen, I just want to see these types of people taking a stake in HIVE.

I have two pools which will generate 10% APY on either Hive or Leo but no one is using them.

With the ability to currently earn 500% on LEO in the MATIC pool and 65% on HIVE in the BXT pool, do you think it's just bad timing?

I'm sorry man, I just can't buy meme coins...

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I take it you haven't read the business plan, it is progressing last meme coin and we're moving to next stages.

More risk involved with 500% and 65% than Skippy Pools

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Elevator pitch me as to why I should pool my upcoming 200 HIVE power down into SKIPPY over the SWAP.HIVE:BXT LP.

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Hive price fluctuations impacts your ROI Skippy is currently locked due to High volume stable. I can also provide the ROI for 200 Hive upfront once staked for the period indicated.

It's to promote long term HODL and support of the token and future projects. You'll also be eligible for future airdrops.


Well, I think I recall hearing from people that the whales didn't believe in that diesel pool and that the hbdstablizer was their solution. Obviously, I think both liquidity and price are both important but their focus seems to be on the price only. In a way, I think they might think that spending more time in and out of the system is fine with them.

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I fully understand that there has been a lot of time, effort and money put into projects like the stabiliser and it's totally fair that there is hesitation when it comes to trying something new.

The HBD stabiliser has been excellent.

It's done what its name suggests and has somewhat stabilised price.

But this alone is not going to take HBD to the next level required to compete with UST.

There's just not enough liquidity for anyone with respectable size to be able to move in and out.

In order to encourage innovation, my opinion is we need innovators who have made money in the communities to move their profits back into a HIVE stake.

And use that stake to influence governance, DHF funding and direction.

Something that unfortunately we haven't yet seen at any real level.

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1 yr

Splinterlands is an odd beast. In one view you have the founders who built Splinterlands and a bunch of other stuff to bring eyes to the blockchain. In the other view you have a company who feels like their success hinges on how well they can hide the blockchain from the user who might get overwhelmed. Ultimately unless you're a power user of certain features, you have no reason to know hive exists at all while playing Splinterlands.

To your liquidity point. One thing that's always struck me in the whole hive ecosystem is just how illiquid everything is. I mean, if I wanted to buy $10k worth of LEO, there's really no way to do it without skyrocketing the price or slowly buying over months. How are we expecting advertisers and such to come in and try to transact in a currency that they can't buy?



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I mean, if I wanted to buy $10k worth of LEO, there's really no way to do it without skyrocketing the price or slowly buying over months.

That was the reason for the LPs on BSC and Polygon.

You can buy $10K worth of LEO on Polygon near immediately. Might have to do a couple of trades due to the slippage. But you can get it done in under an hour and the pull it back across for the cost of 1 LEO using

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1 yr

Thanks for the info. I recently moved from NYC where so many services were unavailable to me that I forget this stuff exists. Now that I've moved away I'll have to look into it again.

Do you have some insight as to why its not easier on hive based DEX's and pools? I really don't get this lack of liquidity here.



When you say there's a lack of liquidity, you're talking about Diesel Pool's, right?

These are just one second-layer solution, but the lack of liquidity here simply comes from the fact nobody is providing it...

Nobody outside of Hive even knows about them and a huge chunk of the money in there is from the Hive-Engine team.

You could say that it's because we don't have any effective marketing or VC insider money starting us off - It's just all organic, so right now it's low.

But the lack of liquidity in HBD that I'm talking about in the post, is different.

In terms of HBD:
HBD is essentially a debt denominated in HIVE.

In its current state, the code simply doesn't afford the HIVE/HBD internal market liquidity.

The trade off being that it's safer in its current form.

A totally fair enough reason to not want to make huge changes.

But there's no question that the lack of liquidity here is holding us back and we NEED to innovate.

Hence the pending layer-2 solution using Hive-Engine's Diesel Pools designed to at least help ease this liquidity problem by pumping DHF money into the SWAP.HBD:SWAP.BUSD pool.

However, there's no support from those with stake so we just continue with the status quo.

In terms of LEO:
LEO is a different kettle of fish again.

You're right that it somewhat has the same lack of liquidity on Hive-Engine and its SWAP.HIVE:LEO Diesel Pool.

But as Task said, LEO has innovated by taking advantage of other blockchains to generate liquidity in its token.

There's currently 167K worth of liquidity in the bLEO:BNB pool on Cub Finance and $641K worth in the pLEO:MATIC pool on PolyCub.

They're not huge numbers, but you can at least buy $10K pLEO in 1 hit on Sushi with barely a couple of % slippage.

There is certainly enough liquidity in this pool for a sub 1% slippage if you layer in.

I just want to see REAL innovation encouraged at the blockchain level in HBD.

And for that to happen, we need innovators (potentially those who get rich on Hive community projects) to flex their muscles by reinvesting that money into HIVE stake.

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This is great, I didn't know this too, the last time I try to purchase Leo I'm using leodex, also when I compared both, it is much cheaper to get pLeo on sushiswap rather than buying market price Leo on Leodex.

I hope HBD can be used to buy some LEO too on Leodex.

Part of the reason HBD liquidity needs to level up. Like forexbrokr said

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When it comes to buying LEO, always check wLEO (Ethereum), bLEO (BSC), pLEO (Polygon) and our own Hive based Diesel Pools for liquidity.

There are liquidity options on LEO coin that many others don't have.

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1 yr (edited)


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I agree with @whatsup comment that there are changes among whale accounts as time passes by, but not on the level that you were writing about... We have more powerful "community" accounts, curator accounts, but those are more focused on the "blogging level" of HIVE and not in the direction of innovation...
On the other side, waiting for stuff to be built can be a long process (for example, SMT on steem), but luckily, some people are taking initiative to create workarounds on these problems... We have Hive-Engine, different tribes, diesel pools, games are built on the HIVE... It is a slow process, but I like that we have dApps making a step forward...
But, I do agree with you that we have "old, slow" whales that are some kind of "HIVE maximalists"... It's not a rare case that some of them "ignore" the existence of everything else than HIVE (things that I have mentioned above)...

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Community accounts are an interesting angle.

The sum of many minnows coming together to affect real positive change.

Other than leo.voter, are there any that have have the millions of HP required?

Frustratingly, I have seen community accounts with millions of HP delegated, being used to downvote the shit out of innovators.

Why any HIVE investor wants to allow their stake to be used in this way, I'll never know.

Surely their stake would be better used to encourage more progressive governance and proposals?

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I'm with you about the downvote stuff and I was against it from the beginning... The problem with plagiarism and abuse of the platform should be solved in a different way...

Other than leo.voter, are there any that have have the millions of HP required?

Not sure who has how much, but I think that there are bdc.voter or something like that, then some Italian community curator, a German, the old qurator, curangel...
Definitely, we need more community-driven curator, but I hope they will come...


Damn... that proposal still didn't pass... I was honestly thinking that the whales are more interested in pushing Hive adoption but now I understand why they don't want it to happen so fast...

Human beings truly are amazing creatures.

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If only we had an efficient, centralised leader who told us what was right and simply got shit done!


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If people keep treating crypto as a money-making machine going full circle is inevitable. Sad but true lol

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I think that HBD could become a real well-heeled decentralised Stablecoin as well. There does need to be some innovation, though I do see the HIVE ecosystem becoming more of a stable blockchain that runs to provide a stable base for other dapps, etc. to run from. It will take some big whale balls to move into the innovation space. At the moment, why rock the boat if you don't need too? It all depends on their motives and ability/want to get involved in the HIVE blockchain innovation.


I totally agree and understand there are always security/stability tradeoffs.

We do have to be careful messing with the Hive blockchain base, but there are arguments to be made for certain innovative changes.

One such being overhauling or at least helping HBD.

The lack of liquidity in its current form makes it essentially useless.

Without liquidity, it is never going to be able to compete with UST.

In my opinion, we're just wasting the potential we have to truly take Hive to the next level.

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1 yr

I've have a large group of people that I regularly support here on Hive. I am nowhere close to being a whale, but I have been kicking around dedicating a day to looking for some new content to upvote. I mean like ten 100% upvotes or something like that. With no development or coding background it seems like the best way I could give back at this point.

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My thinking is that say if the price of LEO, CUB, POLYCUB etc truly goes parabolic, then I'd like to see that community cycle their profits back into a meaningful HIVE stake.

Meaningful enough that they could truly effect governance and DHF voting habit changes.

This is something we haven't seen yet with Hive's 1 true community success story (Splinterlands).

Whether things will be different next time, who knows!

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This is one of the reasons for the idea behind the Hive Savings Bond. We need to generate more HBD to be legitimate.

For that reason, we need ways to get it out on the open market.

And using the DCF for a layer 2 LP is something that I disagree with also. That would not create more HBD. If we are going to put the 12 million HBD (or whatever is in there) it should go to create more HBD.

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I've still gotta go through your Hive Savings Bond idea in more detail.

Blogged ideas get so fragmented.

Are there any more I need to read other than the following?

  1. Hive Bonds: The Next Step In HBD Evolution
  2. Hive Bonds: The Collateral The World Needs
  3. Hive Savings Bond: Need Community Feedback

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