5 times downvoted, so far no reason why (a proposal for the STEEM developers at the bottom of the post)

in newsteem •  8 months ago  (edited)

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I recognize that not all my content can be qualified as "quality" content, in fact, I don't think I'm a quality writer at all, and frankly, I don't want to be either...

I am here to enjoy and share my experiences and opinions and, on top of all, to enjoy the content of others.

Having said that, I consider myself a lucky guy regarding the number of downvotes received.

It is not uncommon to receive from time to time some odd downvote... Generally, the downvoter usually has very little strength and does not leave any reason for doing so, at least on my posts.

However, today I received a Downvote from a rare account that has caught my attention ...

@yaluma has downvoted me my morning post, and I have to say I was expecting it because, honestly, it was a so simple post regarding my Sunday Long Run. This post is addressed to the community of runners on steem, especially @exhaust and @runningproject, the people of these communities would value my post better than others who may simply see another post with respect to someone that runs.

What I mean is that I would not have been surprised if, at some point, I would had received some downvote in one of these type of simple posts.

Today, I received it, a small downvote from an equally small account, @yaluma, which has not left a comment on it ...

And who the f**ck is @yaluma?

Well, I have no idea, but his profile is this:

Account created on July of this year, 1 post written in Luxembourgish? in which he talks about the sale of I don't know what old coin..., there are no comments created by the account but there are a dozen replies, most asking why the downvote.

I have continued looking for downvotes received this week, they are not many but they all have a similar profile:

@reamdram: Hindi account with 1 post created in July 2019, no comments, 6 replies

@raclim: Russian language? created in July 2019, 1 post, no comments, some replies asking why the downvote

@jertrasoim: Russian Language? created in July 2019, 1 post, no comments, some replies asking why the downvote

@tygewer: exactly the same ...

These 5 accounts have downvoted me.
All of them created at the same time, publishing an unique incoherent post and nothing else, now at the service of some downvote trail, I guess...

But the strangest thing is that they all have the same number of followers and follow the same number of accounts.

Among their followers, some known names as @anomaly and @ raise-me-up and other old Bid-bots.

What is this?

What is the AIM?

What do they EARN for doing it?

I do not care, their downvote are so weak that I do not notice but, I would appreciate knowing why I have been downvoted.

I am really impressed that there are still people who waste their time doing something pointless, even if they have automated it.

I see that resentment is not against some but also against all the blockchain steem and I hope this does not get out of hand...

Would not be better to develop further the Downvoted process itself, making it somehow more difficult to be "automated"?

For instance, would be good to apply a "rule" on the code to oblige the downvoter to write the reason why the downvote has been performed...

Something as a compulsory operation just to certify you are human, as captcha or so would help as well...

The downvoting operation is a powerful tool, it has to be used in the best way possible so, I don't think downvoting trails help so much so, that's why I think we can improve it by avoiding automation as much as possible on this operation.

What do you think?

@toofasteddie

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Who is entitled to define quality on this blockchain? A decentralized blockchain...

Are whales entitled? Just as long as they have downvotes at hand...

Are the ones posting 1000 words blogs? No they aren't. You can have posts such as @rickpics and @pixaroma have with great photography which are far better in my opinion than my long shit posting that nobody reads...

If one thinks that only blogging means quality in here and that the blockhain's purpose is only related to blogging is wrong IMO. Steem can be a good alternative to instagram and twitter as well. It's just that the veterans started blogging in here and that's why blog posts are so appreciated.

Sometimes one pic is worth more than a thousand words so how come quality can be attached only to words.

I like your sugestion a lot regarding downvotes. If we have to wait 13 weeks to power down why can't we make downvoting also something a bit harder to use and with more sense attached to it.

Stormy times we have around here...

I am fully aligned with your vision about what to share at steem. I don't think it has to be a specific blogger platform. Steem has such a potential that we have to accept any kind of content.

btw, I am one of your readers and I like what you write man, don't take it so hard!

I'm a perfectionist and that often takes me to extremes 😶. Plus I'm no native English speaker...but people like yourself who read get the point. I admit that I like blogging and I like writing but sometimes I just feel like sharing just a pic or two...but that's not quality as some consider. In my opinion this type of posts become a problem when one shares ten or twenty a day and gets highly rewarded also for doing that. Keep it real and fuck the flags. They come and go just like those users that you mentioned.
Have a great week!

We need to implement a mandatory comment for a downvote and limit to one account each day for an example.

Also we need to limit the number of posts an account can make on steem each day.

That's what I think as well!
We can fix it!

I know someone who got 19 downvotes (so far) on a good post. They're all puny, but it's still pretty discouraging to see that kind of ridiculousness. I get the point of downvotes and think they are absolutely needed when there are so many people abusing the system, but it's also become pretty easy to pop people that aren't worthy. Or as you said, if you're posting to a very particular community it's pretty unfair for someone outside of said community to decide the worth of the post. Unless of course you're abusing tags, but that's a separate issue. I see a problem now in that there are still bots downvoting posts that have been voted on by former bid bots, even though some of those accounts have switched to completely manual curation. I think I've gotten as many as 4 downvotes so far on one post, but seem to get at least a few on most of them anymore.

We are lucky we have not been hardly downvoted but there are good steemians suffering this problem by resentful accounts which are applying their particular "vendetta".

Raclim is a Turkish person, I think but unsure of it. The same for most other downvoters

I think they use aleatory names, mostly turkish and russian but also hindu...

I love all this detective work! Certainly smells very fishy 🐟

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hahahha, well, I confess I like to study how steem is evolving, I have a permanent spirit of improvement and I think we can do great things on this blockchain that's why ;-)

Also I just had a look at downvoters on my posts. It’s the same thing for me - users with 15-ish steem and one post. 🐟

Posted using Partiko iOS

Are downvotes normalized yet? :) It's going through a brutal phase right now

I am sure about the brutal phase coming... What do you think about what I have proposed at the bottom?
I think it could work if we manage to code it on time...

It's been discussed, doesn't hurt to talk about it again. Not sure people want to do captcha before they vote.

I wouldn't worry too much about it dude. If I had to guess, I'd think it's some kind of "bot ring" rather than a "downvote trail". I think w/ a downvote trail, you'd get hit with 20~30 small-ish downvotes.. something that would add up to something significant.

They always seem to come from accounts that have some kind of foreign-sounding 3-syllable name, and are only worth what little SP the main Steemit-Inc faucet has temporarily delegated to them.

I would imagine that all that it is, is whatever few accounts manage to make it through whatever "fraud detection" steemit-inc has for their "new account SP delegation" system -- until they get discovered, have their SP delegation removed, and are no longer able to transact on the blockchain due to limited resources.

I see these accounts all the time, but they're always very similar and I never seem to see them for long, which makes me think that they're getting blacklisted.

@andrarchy and/or some of the @steemitblog might be able to comment on my speculation.

EDIT:

After looking at a couple of the accounts, a few of them are directly powering up their rewards to @camillesteemer:

image.png

So yeah, I'd say it looks like a bot ring that's taking advantage of the steemit faucet, and powering up directly to @camillesteemer when they hit a certain threshold of rewards earned that's set in some kind of script.

I'm not worry about these little accounts, despite I think it is a behavior that bigger ones can also replicate.
The thing is that the downvote operation can be easily addressed to avoid this kind of use. I am not against downvotes, I think it has been a perfect tool to fix some of the historical problems here but it can be improved, for sure.
You have to have a reason to downvote someones post, if not it is just a malfunction and another abuse of the code.

  ·  8 months ago (edited)

I think that if you end up programming something into the blockchain that is intended to prevent or slowdown downvote abuse, it'll be easily overcome by someone that programs some form of script.

i.e. -- just sending a comment justifying the downvote decision.

It's part of the reality with how the steem blockchain is constructed, and how it's made open to everyone.

The best thing we can do is form official or unofficial communities and groups that know how to determine real abusers and prevent large bot rings like this in succeeding.


Long story short, best thing you can do is flag 'em -- and let people know to turn off the faucet. I don't think "new rules" are what we need. Rather, just more of a "see something, say something" kind of mentality.

But if you set a Captcha to perform the operation you may cut the automated downvote ring.

I don't know if coding a captcha onto the blockchain-level interactions is possible.

Sure -- you could have a captcha on frontends like Steemit or Steempeak -- but all that would realistically do is stop real users that are (hopefully) acting fairly and casting justified downvotes.

A mi me esta ocurriendo lo mismo, downvotes de gente en otros idiomas que seguro no se han leído el post ni de coña y que llevan sin publicar meses, con poco poder, pero jode un montón, tendría que haber alguna forma de regular los downvotes desde que se han "liberalizado" o por lo menos que se justifiquen de alguna forma en los comentarios.

Exacto, un "demuestra que eres humano" simple lo haría de lujo en mi opinión.

An old saying "Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something, esp with the doenvote. If you don't like it, don't read/follow that person. Also agree that there should be a mandatory comment required as to why you downvoted a blog. After all, we can't learn what we did "wrong" if you don't tell us. Unfortunately I think a lot of the DV stuff is turning into just a big pissing contest or "look at me, I can DV you!". You do fine Freddie, keep it up.

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